What if being stable is now your biggest liability?
Robert Ludwig, Co-Founder and COO of Perspective (a bootstrapped, $10M+ ARR performance marketing software company with 7.5k customers) sits down with Pascal Levy-Garboua to talk about what it really means to transform a SaaS business in the age of AI.
The SaaSpocalypse is now, and this conversation doesn't soften the blow.
Robert shares how Perspective went from design-first to AI-first, why software as a service is over, and how service as software is taking its place. He also opens up about the founder psychology of letting go of stability, accepting chaos, and navigating a moment where no one—not even Intercom—can predict what is coming.
In this episode:
Robert's "oh shit" moment at an Intercom event in Berlin
The three-layer AI framework Perspective uses: features → copilot → agents
How a non-engineer on his team built an internal tool in a week that replaced two existing tools
Why design quality—once their core differentiator—is now table stakes
The company-wide Claude plugin that carries Perspective's strategy, ICP, KPIs and org chart
How to build psychological safety in a remote team facing AI-driven change
Why bootstrapped founders need to stop managing for stability and start managing for survival
The two things Robert now hires for above everything else: business sense and AI utilization
"If there's no chaos in your company right now, you are too slow and you're not going to make it."
This episode is part of SaaSpocalypse, a mini-series from Indie Board Session where Pascal talks to founders about surviving on the front lines of the AI transition.
Connect with Robert:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-ludwig/
Connect with Pascal:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/pascallevygarboua/
Follow Indie Board Session:
https://www.youtube.com/@Pascal_Levy-Garboua
https://open.spotify.com/show/7jS7yfb...
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/indie-board-session/id1802087911
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